What are your feelings of the art piece at city hall, called "Grandmother Earth"? This piece created by Iris Scadden is intended to depict Commerce City's ties to the land and our historical past while looking forward to a bright future.
What's your opinion?
"The feelings with which the artist infects others may be most various - very strong or very weak, very important or very insignificant, very bad or very good: feelings of love for one's own country, self-devotion and submission to fate or to God expressed in a drama, raptures of lovers described in a novel, feelings of voluptuousness expressed in a picture, courage expressed in a triumphal march, merriment evoked by a dance, humor evoked by a funny story, the feeling of quietness transmitted by an evening landscape or by a lullaby, or the feeling of admiration evoked by a beautiful arabesque - it is all art."
- Leo Tolstoy
115 comments:
Very interesting, I like it but I don't LOVE it. I get the story, but there is just something missing I can't put my finger on it.
I think I would rather have it at city hall then not have it at city hall, if that makes sense.
It does stir up emotions and everyone that sees it for the first time can't help but to just stare at it. I have witnessed many people just looking at it for a long time. I am sure we will hear their thoughts too.
Red Barn Rebel
I Love it!
I am confused about some of the council comments. I thought I heard off the live stream that Council Member Tracey Snyder said that Cultural Council did not know anything about the piece, but then I heard that it was commissioned by the Commerce City Cultural Council. Which is it? I could have sworn I heard her (Tracey Snyder) or at least someone said that Cultural Council did not know about it.
Also, the Mayor only thought it was just a big block, why was there absolutely NO/NONE communication with council/Mayor about what this was going to be at the end of completion?
Very Strange,
Dorris M. North Range Village, Commerce City, CO
I am okay with the art in city hall. What I am not okay with is how the city unveiled it, or should I say lack of unveiling it, there should have been a event. The artist should have made a speech of why and how she came up with the piece. It could have been a good positive thing, maybe even the big TV media would have covered it, but I guess we will never know. We need to start thinking like a big grown up city. Just a thought and I tried my hardest to be positive...Sorry Dustie…
Sasha, C Town
NOPE don’t like it or love it, it is too bulky and big, and most important it took away the seating that was there for citizens!
You guys don’t understand this thing is HUGE! It is like at least 12 feet tall. I think it fits in a place like the Civic Center, but it does take some getting use too. All in all I do like it, it is for sure better then nothing there at all!
David Dang, Commerce City
I have seen it in person.
I think it doesnt fit with the building design and is much too large for the area.
I also see the desire for kids to climb on it.
Seeing it up close the workmaship also lacks somewhat for a professional piece.
I'm sure that many long hours were put into it, but I feel this is not the place for it.
I know this is not politically correct, but I do not like it at all, I don’t like simply, because it scares me. I know that I can not do any better, and I am sure the artist is very good, I just think it is a little scary, maybe it is the really big hands, I don't know.
I can also see how kids would want to climb onto the piece, hell if no one was around I think I would have jumped up on there.
CUTE CUTE kids in the Hometown Holiday videos. Last night was just too cold for family and I to head down there.
Josh J., Reunion
Have to agree with the comment that it does not fit the building, cool piece, but still just way out of place. Nothing against the Artist, I am sure she is a very good Artist, just one opinion.
Aaron P.,
Commerce City
Went to get a form from the Police Department and saw this there. I didn’t think much about it until I saw this forum. Now I think back on it and I think it is a little out of place. I wish the Artist would have put a explanation of story next to the piece, that would maybe bring it all together. Still, have to say the building in all does look a little robotic and too futuristic. By the way, I by no means a art guy, just have lots of dumb thoughts.
Death to Hybrids (kidding, but we do need to support the notion of a Auto Industry Bail Out, period)
I like it but I think that the ear rings are a little off, I imagine them being more big and decorative. Also, if this piece is going to be a permanent piece in city hall, it would have been cool if there could have been a real buffalo fur on it! Just a couple of thoughts, But like I said in the start I DO LIKE IT!
Candice0809@yahoo.com
I was told that there were no indians on the arsenal grounds, in a historical sense. Not to say they never crossed that land or stayed a short time.
Having said that, it seems to large of a focus( I have no problems with nature or indian cultures).
Personally think it should have another home, too big, doesn't fit the building either.
I have some important information about the piece that is being left out. First the Eagle and the other birds are depictions of a new beginning by the grand mother. Also, the white cover is a buffalo fur. This area was originally inhabited by the Arapahoe and Cheyenne. The idea is that the US Army forced off the Indians, then the farmers were forced off by the US Gov. then the land is given back to the animals as a refuge, it is big circle of life. Needless to say yes, I do like it and I think it fits very well in our city hall.
DeeDee, 80022
To Sasha,
I agree with your comments and I think that the city can still do an event with the Artist Iris Scadden. They can still invite her to City Hall and she can talk about what her inspiration is and any thoughts she has.
I think it would be a positive thing. All we have to do is when something like this happens, we just have to take a different direction. No one is wrong here, just a matter of lack of communication. Not a big deal, we can easily fix this whole situation.
Hallie, Artist and Resident
I reserve the right to disagree.
I too am an artist, but I do not believe the city hall should be someone's personal art gallery.
If mistakes were made in not reviewing the art ahead or if it was unavailable to be seen,the city council and staff needs to be able to decide what is appropriate for the building, and future decision standars need to be set.
No offense to the artist, sometimes freedom of expression still needs direction within its birthing process.
To "I reserve the right to disagree.":
You do make good points, I had a vision of art in the City Hall as a way to show off local artist and children's art as a rotating basis.
So, far it looks like this piece is really here to stay. I have talked to many of the council and staff about it and it really seems like no one really knows anything about it! Strange?!
The Red Barn Rebel
I don’t mind the “Art at City Hall”, I have not seen it in real life only from the picture here. If you really want to see some weird art, you should all see the Webb building in Denver. It is a bunch of construction equipment bolted on the wall, going all the way to the top. Very strange and also a big waste of money, since Denver could actually use that equipment.
Not a art critic, also just a guy,
Chuck Dacher, Commerce City, Core Area
I think the idea of local art being displayed on a "visiting" basis is terrific. Also including the children's art would be so supportive and inspiring for them.
Having one or a few artists work being permanent does nothing for me, especially in the foyer area.
I also support the idea of visiting art exhibits. Could the current art be rotated in and out? And I agree with the unvieling. It would give the artist an opportunity to tell everyone herself about all the symbols.
I love all the different views about the are in city hall. To me, I really do not like it at all. I think it is out of place and looks way too cartoonish. I think the artist went overboard and should have had a more traditional approach. The artist should have thought and focused more about the space she was dealing with. My view is that the piece is too large and borders on overbearing.
I support the idea of rotating citizens art in and out of the city hall and I think this should take place sooner rather then later.
I urge city officials to not make this a permanent part of the city council lobby.
B.M., Commerce City
To bm,
I think that you are too disapproving and depressing. Have you even seen other art in your life? I see the “cartoon feel”, but that is what I think is the best thing about it. It looks like a figure out of Miyazaki's Spirited Away. I like it and I think it should always be part of our city in some way or another.
T. Hens, northern part of town
T Hen and BM
I also do not find the art piece appealing and yes I have seen art throughout the world.
I believe it is fine for a temporary display, but I feel) not for a permanent piece. It does not fit the space the building style or feel like a fit.
I support the rotating visiting art idea.
north or south it doesn't matter!
The process to make this thing had to been very difficult. If I am not mistaken I think it is made out of paper and plaster. It maybe took the artist years to create this.
I don't think it should be moved. The city hall building is huge and it can fit, all of you that say it is too big for the space have maybe actually never been to city hall!
The perfect word to describe this piece is BOLD!
I don't know if you all follow the news, but this is the exact statement that this city needs right now!
Hillary and Friends (NOTE: We do not personally know the artist, just our opinion)
Been there
Seen it
Too big
Not impressed
NOT the right statement
AGREE!, not the right statement. MORE TO THE POINT OF NOT THE RIGHT STATEMENT is the art in the city managers lobby of the big mushroom cloud. Nothing says "welcome to our city" or "want to do business with our city" as a huge nuclear mushroom cloud on the wall just as you walk in!
TAKE IT DOWN NOW!
There is a time and a place for everything. The art in the lobby of the city mangers office should be in a art specific type place, like maybe the visitor center of the arsenal.
ONCE AGAIN TAKE IT DOWN!
Citizen and YES I am a ARTIST
LOVE YOUR COMMENT, Made me Laugh so Hard!
I 100% Agree with you. Take it DOWN NOW!
We do not need to celebrate a mushroom cloud!
Ryan Reid, Commerce City
Stupid part is......nothing to do with atom bombs was produced in the arsenal grounds.
Chemical's were made there, little bomblets, prisoners held there, but again nothing that relates to the "mushroom cloud"
I agree TAKE IT DOWN NOW
I thought the mushroom cloud art was someone joking, after talking to some people, it is for real.
Personally I have never been in the city managers lobby, but what the hell were you guys thinking. Of course you take it down!
I will send this comment to the AskC3 also.
Our City Council needs to create a procedure or outline in which all Public Art Projects will go through. It should include a rendering, input from citizens, a time line, and budget. City Council then should have a reoccurring update on the progress of the project. After project is completed it should then be unveiled to the public at a celebration ceremony.
I am not an artist, nor do I think that it matters. I am a citizen who is giving my opinion on the way things should be.
Candice1318@mail.com
Any chance someone could post the picture of the lobby cloud?
Red Barn Rebel
Yes we all need to see the picture of the Mushroom Clouds in the City Mangers office.
Is this a nuclear Mushroom Cloud?
Which one is it? From Japan?
This is the big one...Why is it in the lobby of the city mangers office?
ArtLoverCraftHater
I do not think it will be much time before the “lobby cloud” is taken down. To answer the question about if it is a nuclear cloud….I don’t know anything else that creates that kind of a cloud, except for nuclear clouds.
As for the Giant art piece in the front of city hall, I think that will be there at least for a while. But eventually it will move on and be replaced with some else or maybe furniture.
wow.
So many questions and opinions- no, feelings is the better word. To respond or not to respond, that is the question...hmmmmm...
Normally i don't, it is usually better to let the conversation continue ambiguously- the more people talk, the more view the work and if art is supposed to be rhetorical, well then say on. Having recieved my formal training at Houston Fine Arts (Colorado Women's College), Rocky Mountain College of Design, Metropolitan State College, and University of Colorado at Denver. Funny how in every class in every school professors talked about how successful art, true art, elicits some emotion; the stronger the piece, the stronger the response.
The style is not meant to be completely naturalistic- and working under the philosophical guidelines of the Native American women- the peice is anything but perfect with regard to workmanship. Why? Because the artist should be humbled by the spirit of the work, not full of pride for achieving personal perfection. Many times these women purposely include or create mistakes to keep themselves free of pride. (To be sure, I don't have to worry about adding mistakes in my work!) Platonic and Neo-Platonic artists such as Michelangelo believed the Idea to be Sacred- not the physical work itself.
I suppose there are some points that need to be made about the how and why and when of this particular piece as well as the other work at the Civic Center.
The Commerce City Cultural Council holds public meetings the last Tuesday of each month at 5:30 p.m. in the conference room adjacent to the City Manager's reception area. Meeting minutes and agendas are public record.
In 2005 the Cultural Council, at the request of one of the members who is also on City Council, discussed the need for artwork in the new Civic Center. The decision of the Cultural Council was to submit a grant application for funding from the Adams County SCFD for a prject titled "Community Expressions". ADCO SCFD required that the project was approved by the City Manager and City Council & Mayor because of the stipulation that the work be placed at the new Civic Center. The SCFD funds are tax generated and therefore it is a violation of Federal Tax Law to use grant money except as outlined in the grant.
Community Expressions was so named because the work itself had to be a visual culmination of the history of the people who had lived here, the environment itself, and the connection between them. Within the context of the grant several media were chosen to reflect our relationship with the global community: tile mosaics, batik (textile art), stained glass, bronze & metal smithing, murals, screen printing & painting, ceramics, and oral history. Ten artists reccommended by College & University Art Professors were chosen to work with Commerce City residents and document their stories. "The Old Timers" group consisted of 63 seniors who's families lived here a minimum of 50 years. 50 high school students from Adams City High and Lester Arnold High Schools, approximately 400 elementary school students, Rocky Mountain Arsenal and Wildlife Refuge historian, Native American leaders, (see link on Henrietta Mann http://www.ncore.ou.edu/2003/keynote/index.htm )worked on the project.
The artwork was made available for viewing to the City Council during the month of April 08, and a power point presentation given at a regular City Council meeting the same month as a result of the Mayor's request, prior to it's installation. A scale model of the statue with the information regarding the scale, the artwork with the Rocky Mountain Newspaper headline & articles and the image of the dropping of the atomic bomb on Nagasaki, submitted by World War II Vetrans & their families. The image of the Cheyenne woman, Grandmother Earth was voted on by the Cultural Council, submitted for approval in 2006 through the City Manager's office to the City Council.
The dedication for the artwork was held at the Civic Center in May 2008- both the Cultural Council and the City Council were present. The statue was not completed at that time. There have been numerous requests for some sort of ceremony with regard to the statue as well as accompanying text about the artwork. The intention of the Cultural Council in partnership with the City Manager's staff is to create a brochure to that end.
It is my understanding that the subject of public art process will be discussed formally at City Council with the Cultural Council. Part of the communication challenges are due to the changes on the City Council from the last election. The placement of public art as well as the choices for the art itself remains the responsibility of the Commerce City Cultural Council as in all cities in the the metro area and for major cities across the country.
I worked as project coordinator on the grant, and volunteered to work on the statue as a gift from the Cultural Council to the People of Commerce City. The Cultural Council paid for most of the materials, the labor was free.
Thanks ijscadden. How much money was spent on the materials? Exact dollars and scents?
Federal Tax Payer
well for being a "professional artist", the art piece doesnt look like a professional artist did it...it is out of scale and is not in scale to the building, its needs and function.Good try but i think it missed the mark.
JW Reunion
On the statue or the entire grant?
entire grant. Also, why was city council so surprised on the whole project, have you seen the videos?
I want to give you accurate info so I'll that post asap.
As far as why some members of City Council seemed surprized, I can only speculate. No, I haven't seem any videos. Do you mean of City Council meetings, or the power point presentation?
During the entire process I worked closely with Cultural Council and the City Managers office and the building srchitect. Professional Art Consultants were also hired as was a professional art installation expert who installed everything except the statue. Progress was reported at at every Cultural Council meeting, along with budget reports- all CCCC members who were present at those meetings were fully aware of what was happening.
you should really see the video of the mayor talking about your art in the city lobby, he really had no idea what was going on. Other council members had no idea either. what is going on?
I have heard that CCCC members were not appraised, nor asked and not particulary happy with the way things were decided or the final results.
Just what I was told, by members.
I hope it's nothing personal, everyone has a right to their opinion, but remember, most cities have art commissions, councils and boards whose responsibility is to make decisions regarding public art. City Councils' responsibility is to represent the citizens with regard to laws and ordinances, zoning and land use, etc. They don't govern school districts, water districts, fire departments, police departments, housing authorities or liquor board etc.
Commerce City is a city of the American people who stand for Freedom, not like it was in Nazi Germany where Hitler censored and expelled artists, writers and scientists who didn't agree with the government or VIPs who only allowed government approved art.
All of these citzen organizations and others are integral to the growth and quality of life in our city, but it would be impossible for the City Council to take part in or know what decisions are made in every aspect of our lives, nor should they. Boards and commissions are made up, for the most part, of citizen volunteers to allow us to be involved in a positive way. Each group is autonomous having their own rules and guidelines as well as their own officers. Contemporary cities leave the art and cultural decisions to art and cultural councils.
As for me, it's helpful to hear both positive and critical responses to the work. Of course if the response is hate filled, well you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.
By the way...there are openings on the Cultural Council...for those who would like to make a difference or be involved in a positive way- apply to be a member! Want to have a say in what goes up? There is no better way to have your ideas represented than to get involved. :)
since no one seems what is going on, can you (ijscadden) let us know updates on public art, such as the nuclear clouds in the city manger lobby.
I have personally asked the Gateway News to take a picture of these clouds and post them here.
They said that they would soon.
Erin NW
I think Iris Scadden is a great artist. She along with other artist from Commerce City have brightened up our city with many murals. I have seen many of her works and look forward to what is coming up next. I may not like all of her stuff, but that is who she is as an artist and that is my opinion on her work. Just because I don't like something she has worked on doesn't mean I'm going to go out and bad mouth her work or publically try to hurt her feelings. Let's face it we don't like ALL of the Picasso or da Vinci works. I agree everyone has the right to freedom of speech, but does it have to be so hurtful. I always run into someone who asks or talks about the murals. It's funny how the residence of Commerce City think the murals are horrible and not what our city needs, but to an outsider they are amazing and "very cool" I love looking at them and every time someone mentions them it makes me proud that Iris Scadden is a local artist. Also if you think about it whether its good or bad comments the art work has affected you in some sort of way and that I think is what art is all about. So keep up the comments :) and Iris keep doing what you are doing. You are an amazing artist and someday I hope you get the recognition you deserve. To the council members "Shame on you for lying about not knowing anything about the sculpture."
I say..KEEP THE MURAL professional or not it's a work of ART!
Sincerely,
Iris Scaddens #1 fan
The work is formally called an Assemblage.
Dusty is a wonderful photographer; please photograph the entire piece in context.
This particular piece is made up of images submitted by Commerce City residents and covers the time period between 1800 to 2008. There are, I believe there are about 65 images 2 maps, an American flag, two paintings, and a copy of the original document for Derby. The controversial section that covers World War II was submitted by a woman whose husband was killed in the war, and three men who actually flew bombers over Japan as well as other Vetrans who served in Europe, the Phillipines, Aleutian Islands, and Guadalcanal, and the Rocky Mountain (Army) Arsenal archives. The Airmen not only submitted an actual photo of themselves in the planes, but allowed us to include photos of medals for bravery and honor. One of these Airmen was born & raised on the land that is now the Wildlife Refuge. He was not only a musician & composer but a school teacher and wrote a book about his experience in WWII titled "No Matter How Dark the Night".
Here's Wikkipedia's description:
Assemblage is an artistic process in which two & three-dimensional an artistic composition is made from putting together found objects.
The origin of the word Assemblage,(in its artistic sense) can be traced back to the early 1950s, when Jean Dubuffet created a series of collages of butterfly wings, which he titled assemblages d'empreintes. However, both Marcel Duchamp and Pablo Picasso had been working with found objects for many years prior to Dubuffet. They were not alone, alongside Duchamp the earliest woman artist to try her hand at assemblage was Elsa von Freytag-Loringhoven, the Dada Baroness, and one of the most prolific, as well as producing some of the most exciting early examples, was Louise Nevelson, who began creating her sculptures from found pieces of wood in the late 1930s.
In 1961, the exhibition "The Art of Assemblage" was featured at the New York Museum of Modern Art. The exhibition showcased the work of early twentieth century European artists such as Braque, Dubuffet, Marcel Duchamp, Picasso, and Kurt Schwitters alongside Americans Man Ray, Joseph Cornell and Robert Rauschenberg, and also included less well known American West Coast assemblage artists such as Wallace Berman, Bruce Conner and Edward Kienholz. William C Seitz, the curator of the exhibition, described assemblages as being made up of preformed natural or manufactured materials, objects, or fragments not intended as art materials.
This particular piece is made up of images submitted by Commerce City residents. There are, I believe there are about 65 images 2 maps, an American flag, two paintings, and a copy of the original document for Derby. The controversial section that covers World War II was submitted by a woman whose husband was killed in the war, and three men who actually flew bombers over Japan as well as other Vetrans who served in Europe, the Phillipines, Aleutian Islands, and Guadalcanal, and the Rocky Mountain (Army) Arsenal archives. The Airmen not only submitted an actual photo of themselves in the planes, but allowed us to include photos of medals for bravery and honor. One of these Airmen was born & raised on the land that is now the Wildlife Refuge. He was not only a musician & composer but a school teacher and wrote a book about his experience in WWII titled "No Matter How Dark the Night".
I think it's a lovely piece. And everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Some people like Michael Angelo's work, some don't, either way no need to be hateful.
As for it being in the new Civic Center, I think it makes sense since it was built on the Prairie Gateway and is the Wildlife refuge. The piece clearly shows ties to the land and history.
I find it amusing that Council didn't know what was going on. Arent't council meetings held there every Monday night? Someone should have seen it before ... I do think they should have had unveiling and given the artist proper credit for her work. Maybe then there wouldn't be so many questions and negative comments. Fine example of lack of communication and the piece nor the artist should be blamed.
City Council really needs to address this at the next meeting.
This is not the only time this artist had trouble with Commerce City!
Here's the financial info you asked for.
The artwork includes 3 historical oil paintings, 3 geographic Batiks, 1 portait Batik, 2 wildlife Batiks by Angela Ramirez & Cori Romine, 1 screen painting, a collection of small bronze works by ACHS advanced art students, a collection of pottery by seniors & LAHS students, tile mosaics created by elementary & middle school children, silver & copper jewelry created by high school students, 4 murals (one landscape in oil & acrylic, one in high relief, one silk screen assemblage, one ceramic to be installed on the exterior later this year), stained glass panel, a collection of water colours by elementary students, a statue & birds in flight sculptures, photographic essays of Commerce City residents at summer celebrations, photographic essays of Commerce City Children creating mosaics, paintings and sculptures, photo documents of senior citizens creating artwork & telling stories, a copy of music composed by Ed Lucas, a recording of Ed reading his book, "However Dark the Night", a book written by Mick Mitchel "Septenarian", The History of Derby Report, and a collection of films of "Old Timers" oral history, photographs, newpaper stories and writings.
All of this was created & collected for the people of Commerce City through the Commerce City Cultural Council's Community Expressions Project 2006 ($9997.35) & 2007 (8,899.10) grants from SCFD plus $4,581.91 raised by CCCC fundraising events.
The total is $23,478.36 over a three year period; an amazing collection for the cost
I have heard that questions have been asked, & not always answered in a timely manor, in regards to the art work.
Communication is in deed a problem here, on all partys.
I think it's deplorable the behavior of some persons on City Council. I've been at a number of functions and council meetings and noticed that before the election they pretended to be the artist's best friend in the world, but behind her back...
When people asked about recalling council members, not just the mayor, I wondered why. Food for thought.
For ijscadden:
First Video of your art work, cut and paste following into your browser:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MfgTz3y-VNw
Thanks! :)
Dear Sad,
I believe that this is not intended to be personal. It always is taken that way, because we are personal beings.
What I hear is poor communication on all involved.
It's too bad a more connected and involved approach wasn't used.
What is sad, is when people begin to throw stones rather than build bridges.
Not my idea, but maybe a group of citizens could be the decision makers of what goes into what gov. building. Including the Derby Resource Center. Or maybe the Cultural Council should decide.
I agree with Mayor, as long as the art rotates.
CCSpeaks
I love the statue! I think our city needs a little art. I think the artist is AMAZING! You must be some sort of magician to make things appear out of thin air. I think the statue is a perfect thing to have in the lobby area and for those of you who need to go have tea the chairs are still there. To the artist who did the assemblage good job I really like it. I think it really shows what our city is about from the past to the present. As for not knowing whether or not the Native Americans were here in Commerce City , I believe they were. We took the land from them so they are the ancestors of NORTH AMERICA. Last time I checked Commerce City was a part of North America. I hope all the artwork stays. Every single artist deserves to have their pieces up. Kudos to all of you. Also come on council members how dumb do you think we are. You knew all along about each piece being put up.
I hope you don't mind that i post this. I can't tell you how encouraging this letter is. Hal is one of the lifelong Seniors that participated in the art/history project. Not only was his family multi generation residents, but he spent his entire teaching career at Adams City High School before his retirement some years ago. He was dedicated and kind enough to research and follow those who lived in here and on the Arsenal/ Rocky Mountain Wildlife Refuge/ Prairie Gateway / Soccer Stadium / Civic Ceneter before they ever existed existed. He is a kind and dedicated historian whose photgraphs span decades.
Iris, hello. It has been some time since we last communicated. I am sorry that it has taken me this long to respond to you email of December 5th. I had read this email and then set it aside because I wished to get back to you with proper message. You do make me so proud. Your Grandmother Earth is spectacular. Our past is definitely tied to Native Americans who worshiped the earth and the planets that are visible to present generations. You have done the area proud. I am sure that each person who passes by any of your artwork and stops to place in their mind, "this is how it was." There are not many of us who can point to such fine art and reply, that is how it was during my ancestor's day. I have one question and I do hope the answer is "yes" Is the Indian lady modeled after one of your ancestors? (Your mother, grandmother or?) It would please me even more if this were the case. You have a reputation that is supported by so many grand culturists. Usually, many years passes by before a new facility such as the Commerce City Civic Center is able to acquire appropriate art works. It was almost immediate that your work adorned this facility. It is significant that this art has been created for the community by one of its residents.
Do you know if anyone has searched for artifacts in the area where the Cheyenne and Arapahoe camped? How about contacting early settlers to ask if they have any such artifacts (arrow and spear heads,etc.) who knows maybe they would be willing to donate them.
Good work!
Hal
Hey everyone my name is Phillip Solis and part of the work was mine. My partner's and my piece was the wall mounted work of the mountains that was placed above the stairs in the rear part of the building.
All of the artwork is about the history of Commerce City. Some may seam unrelated to Commerce City but please do your research and ask the artists questions. I'm sure once you realize what the art is showing you will understand.
Next I have met the council and spoken to them so when they say they had no idea I am honestly overcome with some anger. I was in a room with many of them talking to them face to face shaking hands and thanking them for allowing me to be apart of this project. On that day we brought in pieces of the art so that they may get up and examine the work. No I did not meet the mayor and I understand he is a busy man.
The unveiling of the art was a very public event with many people. Both I and my partner were there explaining our work and many of the other artists were there too.
Phillip
Thanks for the comment Philip,
Just to clear up some confusion. I think people are talking about the American Indian piece. As far as I know there was no public unveiling. Unless you know something different.
Can you also give us your inpiration of your piece, behind the stairs.
Thanks
Erin NW
ann trask said...
This entire conversation is FASCINATING! I am an artist who lives in the mountains, knows Iris somewhat (Hi, Iris), and respect her work. I haven't seen the piece, but hope to some day. At first glance, I didn't like the piece, but a photo on computer screen doesn't say a lot. Then I read the entire conversation, and now I do like it,because it is well though out, involves many people and thorough research. Now it says a lot, which good art should do. Its unfortunate there were communication problems; seems to happen with governments anywhere. The idea of rotating exhibits and children's work is excellent. Houston City Hall exhibits artists' work for a two-year period, then changes it. On a much larger scale, of course, but the idea is workable in Commerce City, too.
Iris, YOU GO, GIRL!!
Ann Trask
I agree with the picture part. It does not do it justice. Now a video would be a wonderful thing.....Dustin???????
I made video, and will postit soon.
Dustin McIntyre
I was asked to do a follow up story in the National Coalition Against Censorship publication with particular attention to racial/ethnic sensitivity.
To ijscadden:
I would love to hear the first part of your story. I heard bits and piece but would really be interesting on hearing it from you, can you posted it here?
Erin NW
Honestly, it's a story best told over coffee i think; face to face you know? In any case, i can't afford to be negative; it just eats away at people, don't you think?
I hope the historic treatment of the Cheyenne people is not paralelled by the fate of the statue.
http://www.legendsofamerica.com/NA-SandCreek.html
The Colorado History Museum is currently showing Ancient Voices covering Native Americans here in Colorado from 1500 to today.
I have heard that there are people who try to rewrite history to state the Cheyenne or Native Americans were not here- some would like to belive that only settlers of European decent occupied the land. How silly. Have you ever heard the saying "History is written by the winners."? If we pretend that the truth does not exist we are twice blind. Perhaps a trip to the visitor center at the wildlife refuge taking the time to read the history panels would be enlightening. Colorado history may not be their strongest suit, with so much to learn in the world we can't all know everything. Fortunately there are myriads of history books that document where tribes live(d). The area was actually dedicated by the Cheyenne Chief Yellow Robe. There is a large tee pee that is next to the visitor's center where ceremony was held.
We are not the mask we wear, but the face that is behind it.
History is history- learn from it- don't hide it or deny it; and of course the other old saying, "Fear no Art!"
Dusty,
If you made a video, it would have been nice to have been able to discuss the work and it's meaning on that video.
Why does EVERYTHING have to become a racial situation.
I believe that the first mention of this piece was over the base,a safety issue. The figure wasn't even in place.
It is very tiring to have this "racial" fight always being brought out, when other concerns are the real reason.
I am disappointed that the artist would go that direction.
To Iris,
This is Dustin, I would love to do the video. Can you email me witha good time for you. I am pretty much open to any time you want, during the day I think would be best for lighting.
dustin.mcintyre@yahoo.com
You are right, it is awful, but don't kill the messenger...
Please visit the NCAC website. Their mission is to overcome challenges positively. I suppose i should stop writing on this blog- face to face conversations are less likely to be misunderstood.
My apologies for disappointing you.
ijscadden,
I am disappointed that you are going the racial route. That is not what I heard from 90% of the council comments.
Only 1 person made any reference to the ethnicity of the piece ever!
The comments by Councilman Orval Lewis are outrageous about Artist Scadden’s sculpture, I think Orval Lewis’s head is hideous and big!
Mr. Lewis you owe Scadden an apology.
Erin NW
I don't believe it's a safety issue at all- that's just a PR excuse. Safety issues can be addressed and a solved if there is a willingness to do so.
Why not take a positive approach and place an appropriate barrrier? I've been in cities all over the world & seen where art of all styles are appreciated. They take care to exhibit the work with attractive barriers.
What ultimately happens- if it stays or goes- will determine the true nature of the council's character.
Dear SAD, you have a right to your opinion.
Just because YOU say that the decision, will show the "true nature of the council
s character" does not make it so.
The idea of a barrier alone is sad. That area of the lobby was intended to be used not barricaded off.
That art piece is too large and too attractive to children to climb on.
Should we have a full time guard paid to watch it?
My opinion, is there are better places for it to be enjoyed.
Well I guess I will say something about this whole art situation. I am so proud of Iris and all her work. Sure the statue is big and people are going to have a problem with it, that's ART. I love the piece. It's not just who Commerce City was, but who America was. It's something bigger than just our little city and I think people are missing that. You put alot of work and research into the statue. You have stayed calm through it all. You didn't freak or cry or LIE about anything and I think that shows what kind of person you are. Also if people were to stop and think about what has happened to the Native Americans all over they would understand and maybe GET THE STATUE. Well, I will close with let the council have their stupid little lobby for their tea parties and put your statue in a place that deserves it. Oh yes I agree you deserve a HUGE apology not just from Lewis, but from all council memebers. They have robbed you from day one on ALL your art. I can't believe the Mayor SUGAR COATED Mr. Lewis words right after he said such horrible stuff. WOW how much more sugar coating has our council done on other city issues? I'm very very sad that the art work won't be there anymore.
I find some of your statement a little dramatic.
I believe too many are taking personally the decision to remove
(1) piece of Iris's. It was not all of her work. One piece that does not work where it is.
I felt that the mayor was trying to correct Mr Lewis' statement rather than "sugarcoat" it.
See it how you want, not everything or everyone is mean, ugly and trying to be personal.
Most of Iris's work....has "worked" well for the city.
I LOVE the statue! My family and I are very sad that it has to go. We have native american blood so it was exciting to have a statue based on ancestors. We have never been treated different because of who our ancestors are, but to read and hear the comments about the statue it makes me think what kind of people our City Council members are. The whole thing behind the statue is about our city's ancestors. I am proud of my father and who my ancestors are. I try to teach my children right and wrong and about their ancestors, but please tell me how I'm suppose to teach them that when the city we live in won't accept who we are? So yes I take it personal I am disappointed in the council for everything they have said about the statue. The truth is native americans will never win in their battle to be equal. For crying out loud we can't even have a work of art in a building.
I was at the meetings were you?
ONLY ONE member of the council EVER mentioned anything personal about the statue.
From the first time it was brought up, the consern was about the base, which was too large and the kids were climbing on it.
This ISN'T about the Indian culture, stop making it such! It could have been a horse or car on the block, it is still too big and dangerous for the lobby.
~A citizen who is also concerned!
In defense of the "annonymous" whose concerns are for inclusion of Native American cultural identity: I was contacted by persons that were at the meeting who agree with you-
to the person who seems to be on the attack about consideration of ethnicity as part of the discussion - you can't divorce the subject matter from the discussion - if it is a discussion. It's ok not to agree, but please try to walk in the other person's shoes and react with empathy- it's a sensitive issue- one that requires sensitivity over defensiveness. My guess is that you are very close to someone on City Council and your reaction belies your love for them as does the reaction of the Native American person whose reaction reflects centuries of oppression and love for that person's people.
Now, regarding the form of the statue & base:
Just as clarification,
the large block base was not part of the original design. The statue was designed to be placed on the platform over the north entrance approx 12 feet above the floor level. That is the reason for the scale; the movement from the past to the future is represented by the release of the doves in flight toward the opposite end of the atrium. The doves change color from the natural colors of the Mourning Doves to white doves representing peace as they fly away from her hands. The placement on the platform represents a visual (spiritual) hierarchy in order to present Grandmother Earth as an ethereal memory and reminder of the spritual guidance of all grandmothers regardless of ethnicity. Conflicts and difficulties of the past changing to a more peaceful future.
The inclusion of the eagle was by the insistence of a City Council person, Reba, and was not part of the original design.
As for Councilman Lewis' comment about the scale of the head- it was designed to be placed on a higher physical plane which necessetated proportional adjustment for vantage point of the viewer.
Before the decision was made to place Grandmother Earth where she now sits, placement was planned in the planter on the north end of the atrium. That did not work out for technical/constructive reasons.
The City and the architect hired an art consulting firm to make decisions on the placement of all the art at the civic center. The architect together with the art consultants were responsible for the change in placement from the platform- (which, beside visual/artistic choice, was chosen to keep the statue and viewers safe)- to the place where she now sits.
This necesitated some sort of base or pedestal so the statue base would not either damage the floor, or be damaged by the equipment used to buff the floor. The square block like shape was determined in order to attempt to integrate the organic shape of the statue base with the hard strict geometric shapes of the rectangles and sqaures in the building. This was the suggestion of the architect. The scale of the pedestal was determined by the area of the statue base and the height that was intended to deter people from climbing on it. If you watched the innaugeration or any parade downtown, you may have noticed that all statues that could be climbed on, are climbed on! The statue was built to withstand it; safety concerns notwithstanding, but not unimportant.
The large block shape (pedestal) was modeled after those used for the Native American statue and 19th century statues at Civic Center Park in Denver.
Personally, I think it's a beautiful statue; not for being the image of the ideal beauty, but because the hands are like the work worn, arthritic hands of a grandmother, the lined face of wisdom, and because there is so much to be learned by the spiritual symbolism contained in the art of traditional dress of the Cheyenne women. High ideals that speak of the way we should live our lives as connected with each other and with the earth; That there are things greater than what i like, or you or i like or want. I think it's a mistake to take her out of the atrium.
Even so, no artist wants to have work where it's not appreciated. If it were up to me, I would have liked to have had a conversation/discussion at the beginning with the Mayor & City Council members to answer questions about the statue, (same phone number and email address for more than ten years) but was not given the opportunity
At this point it's unlikely that anything I might say would make any difference, and people seldom consider changing their minds once they are set.
The statue itself was designed to be extemely light weight, (less than 200 lbs- the base less than 50 lbs.) and could safely & easily have been placed where it was designed to be. Unfortunately politics have determined otherwise. The whole experience has been enlightening & educational and I can't say that I regret any of it. I have learned a lot about a lot of people, some things that I truly will treasure.
It's extremely unlikely that I will have the opportunity to create any other public works for the city, but that is not to say that I won't continue to create other work for other venues. It's been a great ride to be sure. ;)
ijscaddon:
I realize it is a sensitive issue. I believe you put your heart and soul into the piece. I believe "some" want to make this more offensive that it appears to me.
Personally I get offended when race is brought in to issues, where it wasn't a factor in a decision.
concerned citizen
p.s. I must admit I didn't attend all the meetings, but listened to them on the gateway stream, so I am probably not the person you assume.
I am Denver artist who knows of Iris Scadden and heard about this blog from a mutual friend.
Iris, you are very brave to have this discussion in public. I admire you and yes it can be very emotional. I heard the comments made by the commerce city council member and found them to be very ignorant and uncalled for.
I am wondering if you have gotten an apology from the city yet?
Kyle Bernard, Denver
One rude council member does not make the city!
Kyle-
Thank you for your kind comments. No, i haven't recieved an apology; but quite a number of people have apologized for this person!
On a happy note, i had the rare opportunity to have a conversation with the Director for the Petrie Institute of Western American Art, Denver Art Museum who asked to see a pic of the statue. He said he thought it was very nice. He was interested because of the historical accuracy of the dress and symbolism. TOTALLY made my day. He has amazing scholarship and expertize. He also wished me luck with regard to the disposition of the work. He told me about Ernest H. Blumenshein's signature piece that is currently on exhibition and how during the artist's lifetime he couldn't sell it because of the politics of the day; it is a portrait of a strong Native American man who had chosen his own identity over both the past, and the current forced assimilation of the government. The work is considered a masterpiece both for his impeccable technique and the obvious symbolic imagery. The name of the work is "Star Road and White Sun".
The whole conversation was unbelievable encouraging.
After all the talk about the statue at the Civic Center I decided to view it myself. I do believe it is a good work of art. It certainly fits in with the past history of Commerce City. Maybe city council would like something of the present instead. Perhaps a sculpture of the council members in bikinis holding a cocktail glass.
It seems like some of this should be e-mail to e-mail not blogs....
these are conversations that you need to share one on one.
The only one who needs to apologize is council member Oral Lewis. He is the one that made the rude comments, don’t take my word for it, look at the videos that the Gatewaynews videos!
Rest of the council were for the most part politically correct. The Mayor even tried to smooth the situation out, (The Orval Lewis comments). I agree, with the comment “don't judge the whole city based off one comment by a certain council member.
Video of the art in city hall is a much better then the picture you have posted here, no offense.
The words on the block are perfect. After seeing the video I think I have changed my mind and now I really do like it. From the picture, my first thoughts were not very flattering.
H.T. Part Time Graphic Designer and resident of Commerce City, Colorado
I was just in Commerce City. Previously,I had attended an Art Show by Iris Scadden at the Hilton Austin,in Austin,Texas. I love her artwork and the show there was a huge success. I had been told that newer pieces of her artwork were on display and I went to see them. WOW, was I impressed. Her Indian woman is beautiful and a great piece of cultual history. The size is perfect for the high ceiling and window with the mountains in the background. Commerce City is lucky to have such a talented artist who is willing to contribute to the beautification of the city and it's city building. It is a shame that some do not have appreciation time, dedication and work involved in making this wonderful piece of art. It IS and should be an embarrassment for the city and city council members to even think of not supporting her efforts and the decision to honor the "rebirth", culture and history of the area in such a great way. I can only imagine that the underlying racist sentiment by some blog writers and council is what is being spewed into this blog. Also, I must agree with writer Holly, that all those in Commerce City..and Denver should go out an see it for themselves, because the picture on this blog does NOT do the sculpture justice...in person, it is beautiful. Comments by Josh Reunion are expected and ridiculous...scary? oh please, grow up and if he had seen to sculpture in person, he would have seen that there is no way for children ...or him to "climb on it". Would he be considering this behavior with his kids at the Denver history museum with the giant dinosaur bones exhibit..I doubt it, it just shows his ignorance and predjudice...or is it just too "scary" for him and his kids to go down and see???
I think the cultural council should allow McIntyre to enlarge his picture of Vashaw that is in the paper, something like 60 inches and put that is the city hall.
It could be called "THE ACTIVE CITIZEN"
Now that is what I call ART!
How soon until the art is removed and/or rotated from city council?
Which art is being removed and what is the timeline of rotation schedule?
Curious Citizen
Thought this was funny.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090131/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_iraq_shoe_sculpture
Iris,
I hear they are moving your art piece, how do you feel about that?
Erin NW
How can I complain? It's been a great experience. The Cultural Council is set to meet with the City Council Feb 9 at 5:30.
In the time before she may be moved I'm taking the opportunity to meet with anyone who is interested to view and discuss the work personally. Anyone who would like to can email me at ijscadden@yahoo.com
BTW, the entire silk screen mural was taken down- not just the image of the bomb. If anyone would like to see it, it has been given back to the artists and they will have it in exhibition open to the public soon.
Seems kinder to not have destroyed the piece (bomb), but returned it to the artist for their display somewhere else.
REPOST from General Issues:
Is Commerce Ciy violating the conditions of the grants received from the SCFD by removing all the art from the city building? I thought the grants were received were for the city building art.
Didnt Iris Scadden and who ever else worked on this piece make it specifically for city hall?
Yes to both of the previous comments. The meeting tomorrow at 5:15 at city hall is open to the public.
To all the Artist who poured their hearts and souls into trying to make something good for this city.
I am so sorry that our city council members are a bunch of jasck asses.
Your piece will be missed.
Erin NW, Commerce City
So one of the only grants commerce city gets they are going to have to return?
Where are the council priorities?
We obviously know where the city council stands on their opinion of the art piece, just watch the video of the piece being called a “hideous, big headed Indian”, the actual words of a council member!
I am shocked by the actions of this city council, no wonder we are always hearing about recalls
I am sorry to Iris Scadden and all of the Artist that have to deal with this HIDEOUS council!
Holly, Commerce City
Prof. Guy,
THANK YOU sharing! Very interesting!
Erin NW, Commerce City
I am Kori Matthews Guy, Professor of Native American Studies and Native American art classes within the Political Science Dept., of Metropolitan State College. I had been introduced to Iris and her sculpture, Grandmother Earth, and
was impressed by the beauty and potential healing that can take place for those Native Americans within the Commerce City area, and over the whole state; healing surrounding the event of the Sand Creek Massacre, of Nov. 29th 1864.
Then as I was reading a blog posted by one of the local newspapers, when I came upon the statement made by someone in the paper's blog...'There were no Native Americans who lived in this area before anyway'... Please let me CORRECT this INACCURATE statement. Specifically, there were several tribal Indigenous Peoples who had a long-time presence in this area, much longer I might add then the new settlers who had taken said land. There was the Arapaho Nation, who were led by the Great peacekeeper, Black Kettle who was a peace-seeking chief of a band of some 600 Southern Cheyennes and Arapahos led by White Antelope who followed the buffalo along the Arkansas River of Colorado and Kansas. They reported to Fort Lyon and then camped on Sand Creek about 40 miles north. President Abraham Lincoln had signed a treaty with them and gave them the Medal of Peace, which Black Kettle wore during the Massacre, and White Antelope had a raised flag of truce, the international sign of peace.
I suggest that you just google Sandcreek Massacre, for details. There were also Cheyenne, Kiowa, and Lakota, to name but a few. We inhabited our lands freely and
joyfully and we are still here, but we look like everyday citizens. We are stable and loving, and have good family lives, and we watch for symbols such as this wonderful statue to show us that it is 'ok' to be who we are. From these difficult times in U.S. early history, is it any reason we have been slow to say, 'Hey look at me, I'm Indian. Gov. Evans was known to Quote...'The only good Indian is a Dead Indian'!
Then when you think about the wonderful meaning of peace and harmony represented by the Grandmother Earth statue, you might begin to see how the Native Community will probably view this as a very welcome, healing move, healing of the land and of damaged human relations, of many races. The Earth is our Mother, first and formost, and it is the single most precious reason for living
that we have as Native People.
When you combine the knowledge about the Arsenal, and how now it is returning to be a Nature Preserve, rather then what it was
before, I cannot think of a singularly more beautiful and appropriate symbol for
Commerce City to have in your Civic Center. You will be the leaders of Peace and Healing and desire for positive change over any of Denver Metro cities, let alone for the State.
I truly congratulate you on your sculpture, and your artists who have made this wonderful artwork for you. As a professional artist myself, the symbology of the pose, the materials used, the classic Grandmother Earth who is a Mother to all of us, and the effort and time it took to create, I am impressed! It is a most welcome influence for all who desire to see peace and harmony and healing, both within the nature preserve and land involved, and within our communities.
Thanks, I will be sending students to go see the sculpture, when we study Colorado early history.
- Prof. Kori M. Guy
Iris,
I saw the video of your comments to Orval about his comments about the piece you worked on. I admire you and you are truly a better person then I am. I still think that he should say sorry to you. There is a time and place for everything and his comments about calling the piece "hideous" Is un called for!
Mr. Lewis is a elected official and we need them to act in a way that is at a higher standard. It is what is excepted.
I truly admire you spirit and your willing to forgive.
You are truly a better person then I am.
Holly T., artist in Commerce City
Thank you for posting Prof. Kori Guy,
What an education, I am disappointed by the Gov. Evans quote, I think of it whenever I am on Evans Ave, down by where I work!
This whole situation got a little out of hand because of lack of communication. I think Commerce City has learned by all of this and I do not foresee this happening again in the future.
I wish we had Native Americans on City Council.
R. O'Neal, Commerce City
So I am still confused? I thought I heard that the Indian piece was being moved to a museum.
Now I am hearing that it is staying?
What about roping it off?
Anyone know for sure?
Kyle, Denver
We do have a native american on council. Councilwomen Drotar is part American Indian.
Who said Drotar was native american?
Not Fooled
*Gateway News Clarification: Yes Reba Drotar is Native American and if you have any questions I am sure she would be happy to answer them.
Stream said that Art was going to a better place outside the city. Now I am hearing the Art is staying at city hall?
Please help a very confused citizen
ijscaddon,
Just curious.
I heard that at the meeting you told councilman Lewis that he did not need to appologise for his "opinion" that people needed to express their opinion about art.
Now I am confused as one of your blogs, (in answering to whether any appologised to you), you said no one directly. You never mentioned in the blog it being unnecessary, "that opinions were good".
It appeared as if you did feel you were owed an appology. Was that a sympathy ploy or did you later feel enlightend as to different opinions?
Ok so now Iris is an alien who has no feelings. Iris is still a human being with a heart. So she shouldn't want an appology for such a horrible comment?
That's riddiculous, who wouldn't? So what if you changed your mind on not wanting one. I would change my mind too if I knew who it was coming from. Why accept something that is phony anyway.
Ok so now Iris is an alien who has no feelings. Iris is still a human being with a heart. So she shouldn't want an appology for such a horrible comment?
That's riddiculous, who wouldn't? So what if you changed your mind on not wanting one. I would change my mind too if I knew who it was coming from. Why accept something that is phony anyway.
Leave Iris Alone! She has taken enough crap from the city. The more stories I hear the more I can’t believe she even lives in the city still.
Iris is a good person and she was only trying to be politically correct when it comes to Orval Lewis. Something many of the council members have no clue about!
Erin NW
I had a conversation with her about the next article she's writing for Black History Month here's part of it:
"I believe that unarmed truth and unconditional love will have the final word in reality. That is why right, temporarily defeated, is stronger than evil triumphant.
Hatred paralyses life; love releases it. Hatred confuses life; love harmonizes it. Hatred darkens life; love illuminates it."
Dr. Martin Luther King
My question is, why on earth would an artist who benefits be sitting on a board that can commission work to be done by her. Does that mean, if I as a citizen could join a board and have that board hire me to do work?
Okay, am I missing something? If I were on the Cultural Council, why was this important piece of art came from a person who is on THAT board? In my mind, I would think that monies given to the Cultural Council, who be looking at bids from artists from all of America. How did this happen? What kind of oversight is going on with our tax dollars? In my mind, whoever is leading the Cultural Council has two huge problems: 1. horrible communication with their customer (The City and City Council) about what this was going to look like. 2. No more money going to anyone associated with the Cultural Council or any of their friends or family. – I mean come on people! We have become a bigger City than this! This is another shameful thing of where people are taking advantage of our City.
Get mad people! It is the only way to change this “blood sucker” mentality! Stop people who want to be involved with our city so they can make money from it, rather encourage the people who do things selflessly.
My question is, why on earth would an artist who benefits be sitting on a board that can commission work to be done by her. Does that mean, if I as a citizen could join a board and have that board hire me to do work?
Okay, am I missing something? If I were on the Cultural Council, why was this important piece of art came from a person who is on THAT board? In my mind, I would think that monies given to the Cultural Council, who be looking at bids from artists from all of America. How did this happen? What kind of oversight is going on with our tax dollars? In my mind, whoever is leading the Cultural Council has two huge problems: 1. horrible communication with their customer (The City and City Council) about what this was going to look like. 2. No more money going to anyone associated with the Cultural Council or any of their friends or family. – I mean come on people! We have become a bigger City than this! This is another shameful thing of where people are taking advantage of our City.
Get mad people! It is the only way to change this “blood sucker” mentality! Stop people who want to be involved with our city so they can make money from it, rather encourage the people who do things selflessly.
get a grip, we know who you are and who is controlling you
I am concerned about Council’s inaction regarding the Native American statue in the lobby of City Hall. There are signs of deterioration as well as being a hazard and should be removed ASAP. I think a timeline should be given ASAP, so the public knows what is going on.
Concerned Citizen
The Date of May 1st is the plan to remove art piece from the lobby of Commerce City Hall.
hi, new to the site, thanks.
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